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Friday, August 07, 2009

Community organizing for me but not for thee...

Mickey Kaus asks the question I was wondering about.
If an "astroturfing" campaign gets real people to show up at events stating their real views, isn't it ... community organizing? ...
Jonah Goldberg scoffs at Nancy Pelosi's accusation that those showing up at townhalls are being sent there as part of an astroturf campaign by the health insurance industry and they're showing up with swastikas.
Now this is a pas de trois of dishonesty, slander, and idiocy. Not only is Pelosi lying when she says protesters are bringing swastikas to these town halls, not only is she suggesting that American citizens are Nazis for having the effrontery to get in the way of Obamacare, but she’s also saying that the alleged swastikas are obvious proof that these protests are manufactured by slick P.R. gurus.

How does that work? What public-relations genius says: “Okay, we need these protests to seem like an authentic backlash of real Americans. Make sure everyone has enough Nazi paraphernalia!”
But that is the type of idiotic thinking underlying the Democrats' faux outrage over people expressing their anger at Obamacare.
It’s difficult for mere mortals like us to fully grasp the enormousness of the Democrats’ hypocrisy. Put aside all that talk of dissent being the highest form of patriotism. Overlook that Democrats would have upended jerry cans of gasoline and immolated themselves in protest if the Bush administration had asked people to inform on their neighbors. You can even forget that the DNC’s claims are untrue.

But how can we ignore the fact that the world’s most famous community organizer is whining about community organizing?

But wait: It gets better. As of this writing, the entire BarackObama.com site was dedicated to “Organizing for America,” with a special page dedicated to “Organizing for Health Care,” where supporters are asked to flood town halls and “make certain your members of Congress know that you’re counting on them to act.”

They only thing they left out is the instruction to leave the Brooks Brothers jackets and swastikas at home.
UPDATE: Peggy Noonan pours her thoughts over the rising tension between those going to the townhalls and the shellshocked Democrats who are unready to answer their constituents' angry protests.
What has been most unsettling is not the congressmen’s surprise but a hard new tone that emerged this week. The leftosphere and the liberal commentariat charged that the town hall meetings weren’t authentic, the crowds were ginned up by insurance companies, lobbyists and the Republican National Committee. But you can’t get people to leave their homes and go to a meeting with a congressman (of all people) unless they are engaged to the point of passion. And what tends to agitate people most is the idea of loss—loss of money hard earned, loss of autonomy, loss of the few things that work in a great sweeping away of those that don’t.

People are not automatons. They show up only if they care.

What the town-hall meetings represent is a feeling of rebellion, an uprising against change they do not believe in. And the Democratic response has been stunningly crude and aggressive. It has been to attack. Nancy Pelosi, the speaker of the United States House of Representatives, accused the people at the meetings of “carrying swastikas and symbols like that.” (Apparently one protester held a hand-lettered sign with a “no” slash over a swastika.) But they are not Nazis, they’re Americans. Some of them looked like they’d actually spent some time fighting Nazis.

Then came the Democratic Party charge that the people at the meetings were suspiciously well-dressed, in jackets and ties from Brooks Brothers. They must be Republican rent-a-mobs. Sen. Barbara Boxer said on MSNBC’s “Hardball” that people are “storming these town hall meetings,” that they were “well dressed”, that “this is all organized,” “all planned,” to “hurt our president.” Here she was projecting. For normal people, it’s not all about Barack Obama.
She recommends that the Democrats back off and wait until later to push for their vision of health care. Well, that won't happen, because for them, it's all about Obama. And he wants it. And they realize that the problems passing their sort of bill will only rise once it gets caught up in reelection campaigns next year. And there is always the chance that the Democrats could lose their filibuster-proof control of the Senate. That's why they have the need for speed. But after they pushed through the unimpressive stimulus, the rest of the budget, and cap and trade in the House, people just aren't going to roll over for them to mess around with health care.

And Rich Lowry weighs in (and he even borrows my line).
Like Richard Nixon, Barack Obama wants to govern on the strength of a silent majority, although with a twist. Obama wants the majority that opposes or questions his policies to stay silent.

Obama’s White House and its allies have unleashed a barrage of criticism and condescension at people daring to show up at town-hall meetings and ask their elected representatives pointed questions. “Fired up and ready to go!” apparently works only one way. If engaged citizens shower Obama with adoration at stage-managed rallies, they are the very stuff of American democracy. If they boo their congressman, they are a scandalous eruption of fake or hateful sentiment.

The Democratic National Committee has called the hostile questioners and protesters at town halls a “mob.” White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said that they represent “manufactured anger” ginned up by nefarious corporate interests, and referred to them as “the Brooks Brothers brigade.” California Sen. Barbara Boxer, too, took offense at the untoward lack of shabby dress, noting with disapproval that the protesters are “well-dressed.” It’s the attack of the haut polloi.

All of these Obama mouthpieces must forget that the president once was a community organizer. As a young man in Chicago, he got people to meetings and primed them with questions to ask city officials. By the Gibbs standard, when Obama prodded his community activists to get the Chicago Housing Authority to remove asbestos from a public-housing complex in the 1980s, it was contemptible “manufactured” outrage.

Conservative groups are publicizing the times and locations of town-hall meetings on the Internet. They are calling and e-mailing people on their membership lists and urging them to make their voices heard. No one prior to the troubled career of Obamacare thought town-hall meetings should be closely held secrets, or considered basic block-and-tackle political organizing as out of bounds.

Obama once extolled such organizing as one of the marvels of American democracy. The same DNC operative who attacked the “angry mobs of a small number of rabid right-wing extremists” ran a union-funded group in 2005 opposing Pres. George W. Bush’s Social Security reform. It organized protests and town-hall meetings, and ran TV ads. But never mind — it’s activism for me, not for thee.
Attacking angry constituents coming out to town halls is a miserable strategy. Hiding from your constituents will not play well in a reelection bid. Better to engage and explain why Obamacare is better than the status quo and why the fears of the protesters are exaggerated. But they can't seem to do that, can they? And the majority is not remaining silent.

56 comments:

Stan said...

The Dems really over-stepped in trying to smear these protesters. It will backfire because the story of Obama's intimidation during the campaign will have legs now. http://michellemalkin.com/2008/08/28/next-the-obama-thugs-came-for-stanley-kurtz/?print=1

Back then, the MSM had covered BO-zo with teflon. The story stayed bottled up. Now, the teflon is coming off in large chunks and a lot more people are realizing who the real BO-zo is. The WGN story will resonate.

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Pat Patterson said...

My suggestion to make the demos more real to the Democrats was tie dye t-shirts, Greek fisherman caps and "Free Bob Avakian" buttons but the khaki and polo shirt crowd simply didn't see the wisdom of such a disguise. But at least this current crowd knew all the words to Country Joe's Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-To-Die-Rag but they always spoil the mood by laughing at certain lines. Hopeless! But I did hear a rumor that they are all in the same tax bracket that Bill B is noted for claiming membership.

Bill B. said...

Could you try to act more respectfully to our president Stan. You may not like his policies, but he was elected in a landslide, and the majority of Americans support him.

He is the president of all of us, and when you dis him, you are dissing all Americans.

Bill B. said...

Here's a link to republicans playing the Nazi card.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/07/pelosi-protesters-includi_n_253762.html

It's disgusting. That's what you get with Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck pouring poison into the ears of the uneducated all day long.

tfhr said...

Biddle,

Here's a link to the Speaker of the House, elected to her position by the Democrat majority in the House of Representatives, playing her NAZI card. It's disgusting.

http://www.infowars.com/pelosi-tries-to-dismiss-obamacare-opponents-as-nazis/

You claim that opponents to the current Dem health care "reform" plan are "uneducated". Proof? Why not drop the slurs and just explain (educate us?) the advantages of the plan you support and how it will be paid for without bankrupting the country?

By the way, you claim that you pull in something on the order of $350K/year. Congratulations! Care to explain to the rest of us how you've had such tremendous success?

Dr Weevil said...

Obama was not "elected in a landslide". His margin was 7.2 percent (52.9-45.7). Wikipedia's List of Landslide Victories page lists six presidential elections just in the 20th century where the margin was over 18 points. In four of them the margin was over three times Obama's: Johnson beat Goldwater in 1964 by 22.6 points, Nixon beat McGovern in 1972 by 23.2, FDR beat Landon in 1936 by 24.3, and Harding beat Cox in 1920 by 26.2 points. Obama's victory, while solid, was not even close to a landslide. Bill B. has said this before, and been called on it, yet he keeps repeating it as if saying it over and over will make it true.

Tacitus Voltaire said...

Debate Turns to Rage
Florida event to discuss health care explodes into a near riot as protesters clash with lawmakers


wow, even in the fox news version the protesters look like an angry, ugly mob!

is the republican party capable anymore of doing anything but digging itself a deeper hole? nice work, guys!

from what i hear out of the republican side lately, there are two unproven premises that y'all are basing all of your hopes on: 1) that obama will become unpopular, and 2) that, if this ever happens, it will benefit the republican party

:-)

good luck with that!

equitus said...

It’s difficult for mere mortals like us to fully grasp the enormousness of the Democrats’ hypocrisy.

It is a challenge, but we here at Betsy's have been getting accustomed to it thanks to BB:

He is the president of all of us, and when you dis him, you are dissing all Americans.

Pat Patterson said...

Who knew that Bill B could satirize himself from say Sept 2008? So Bill B has added to his repetoire an ability to satirize, an already well-established ability to plagarize and now irony in demanding treatment for Pres Obama that he has denied to Pres Bush. Or did I miss Bill going Emily Post(al) over a recent Oliver Stone interview where he compared Hitler to Bush?

"I tried to understand Nixon, I would try to understand Hitler, I would try to understand Oedipus. I'm not here to make judgments. Downfall is a great movie about Hitler - God, Bruno Ganz may have made Hitler better than he was, I'm sure he did, but you know what? It gave me a little insight into the banality of evil. Bush is the same thing." Interview from Globe and Mail December 2008. Of course he also may have been speaking to the nuanced crowd, who along with everyone else, have developed a habit of avoiding Oliver Stone's films.


Or this lovely little comparison that I'm sure Bill B was horrified at when it was used during several anti-war rallies.

http://tinyurl.com2l68x5

It's a little late to get prissy Bill!

ic said...

"one protester held a hand-lettered sign with a “no” slash over a swastika"

Apparently the protester was "anti-Nazi", who but the real Nazi would find that threatening?

ic said...

"He is the president of all of us, and when you dis him, you are dissing all Americans."

Ergo, the president should be president for life. How else can one run against a president without dissing him? Was Bill Clinton dissing all Americans when he dissed then president Bush? Was Obama dissing all Americans when he dissed GWBush in 2008? Bill B. is stuck on stupid.

The Dems are giviing credit to where credit is not due. The Republicans are incapable of orgainzing. If they were, they would not have lost big in the last two elections.

Another thought: if the raging mobs were astroturfs, the Dems have nothing to worry about. Astroturfs do not vote, enraged voters do.

Stan said...

Bill,

Rush's listeners are substantially better educated than the average American. They have also proven in poll after poll to be far better informed on the issues than the average liberal or Democrat.

Perhaps your posts would be more effective if you did some research.

Bill B. said...

But Obama's victory *is* a landslide, compared to the previous two Presidential elections.

In the first one, President Bush did not even receive the majority of votes.

I'd say that Obama's result can rightly be described as a landslide, Michael, even in the teeth of your new found enthusiasm for the authority of wikipedia.

Bill B. said...

I'm very surprised to hear that Rush's listeners are substantially better educated than the average American.

My impression was that they were a lot of lazy racist rednecks, easily manipulated by hate talk from a demagogue.

Looks like I'll have to revise my low opinion of them. Can you point me at some evidence to support your belief?

Bill B. said...

... Pelosi is simply describing the behavior of these feckless and sometimes violent republics.

She expresses her disapproval of the way they carry swastikas to public meetings on health care.

No surprise - you totally mischaracterized Pelosi's action.

Dr Weevil said...

Calling me 'Michael' just shows your own thuggish tendencies, 'Bill B.'. Once again you hide your own name, address, profession, and all other identifying characteristics while showing that you know my name. Only a creep would do that, and you are a creep. That much we can tell about you. I'm not surprised that you support Pelosi's union thugs, though I doubt you have the courage to do any bashing in person.

Of course, anyone who thinks the largest margin of victory in the last three presidential elections makes for a 'landslide' is a liar or a fool, as well. Three is a ridiculously small sample size for generalizations. It would have been easy to write "relative landslide", but you didn't, though you have been called on this very point before.

tfhr said...

Biddle,

Bush won in a landslide over Kerry, by comparison to the previous election.

Labeling an audience the size of Limbaugh's, some 20 million Americans, as "lazy racist rednecks" is the kind of thing that gets good turnouts at these "town hall" meetings and it really irritates people to be called "Nazis" by Nancy Pelosi, so big surprise if they show up ready for a fight. By the way, please provide us with some of Nancy Pelosi's evidence backing her claim.

Yup, that Barack Obama sure is the post-racial unifier. Who knows? He might have been if not for the blanket slur directed at the Cambridge Police Department. That gaff really cut away the facade and people like you just drive home the point that the left is about the politics of divisiveness in the form of class and racial warfare.

Keep it up and you'll ruin any chance that Obama has left for a successful term and condemn him to serving the remainder of Jimmy Carter's second term.

Stan said...

Bill,

They have this thing called google. I typed in "rush limbaugh listener profile" and the first link I opened was this one
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474976772026

Took less than a minute. Interesting comparisons. You'll note that this chart shows that Limbaugh's listeners were knowledgeable than those who listen to NPR or watch CNN, MSNBC or PBS.

If you google a bit more, you'll find more comprehensive profiles that advertisers use. Rush's listeners generally work longer hours, are more likely to own their own business, and are more successful financially.

I can't imagine where you would have gotten the totally distorted idea that you had. Perhaps you need to find some news sources that are more accurate.

Bill B. said...

You know tf, you keep making claims about "playing the Nazi card" and even "being called Nazis by Nancy Pelosi.

You think you wouldn't be wrong about something as important as that, but you *are* wrong.

At the link you gave, is some video of Nancy Pelosi saying "I don't understand why some people would bring swastikas to a town hall meeting on healthcare".

Nowhere does Speaker Pelosi call anyone a Nazi, as you allege. It's the literal truth - some ugly wingnuts brought swastika signage to disrupt a health care meeting. Nobody understands why. It's irrational and hateful.

Bill B. said...

Stan -- I hate to break the news to you, but the poll you referenced shows that the majority of Limbaugh listeners are (1) not college educated, (2) elderly, and (3) not "high knowledge".

Seems like you have made my case for me.

Pat Patterson said...

Bill must get into bed at night with a baseball bat that he pokes under the mattress to scare away the monsters. Only the true believers could look at the Huffington Post photo, cropped BTW, and see a Nazi salute where in all likelihood the teens hand is still holding up his poster which all the other links in the article showed him with.

But just for te sake of argument let's assume that his particular 16-year old has studied Roman oratorical gestures and arrvied at this pose as part of the emphsis he is placing on his answers. Of course this is all in honor of Dr Weevil.

http://www.crankyyankees.net/everett/everett.jpg

Just in case Bill has never heard of Edward Everett he also spoke, for over two hours at before Lincoln gave his Gettysburg Address. I would assume that to Bill Sen Everett was also a fascist and showing disrepect to the office of the President.

Tacitus Voltaire said...

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474976772026

"three knowledge questions answered correctly"

are you trying to make me laugh?

besides, rush limbaugh listeners have worked hard to earn their international reputation as the most gullible and ignorant high profile group in the world outside of the flat earth society - don't try and rain on their parade!

Tacitus Voltaire said...

Bush won in a landslide over Kerry, by comparison to the previous election

obama mccain 52% 48%
bush kerry 52% 48%

ummmmm...

Tacitus Voltaire said...

correction:

bush kerry
popular 50.7% 48.3%
electoral 286 251

obama mccain
popular 52.9% 45.7%
electoral 365 173

Timothy said...

All this talk about "the mob" makes me think that a "I am the mob" video would be devastating to Team O.

Just get everyone attending a townhall to take a few seconds to look into the camera and say "I am the mob". Grannies, mothers, doctors, nurses, children, teens, etc. Then play it nationally and go viral.

Game over.

Dr Weevil said...

Apparently Tacitus Voltaire doesn't know the difference between 'previous' and 'subsequent'.

tfhr said...

Dr Weevil,

TV doesn't know from A to Z.

tfhr said...

Biddle,

"Limbaugh listeners are (1) not college educated, (2) elderly"

I guess that's reason enough for an elitist wannabe such as yourself to hate them.

(3) not "high knowledge".

Is that a Kerry-esque kind of "high knowledge" or maybe just a hat tip to illegal drug use from a dope?

davod said...

I recall the term Brownshirts has also been used in relation to the anti-health deform protestors.

This from Patterico -

"In a related story to this post, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports 6 people were arrested in connection with last night’s events outside the Carnahan townhall meeting:

“– Two men were arrested for misdemeanor assault for allegedly punching, pushing and holding a man who was handing out American flags and fliers outside the school.

– One woman was arrested for misdemeanor assault and destruction of property for allegedly pushing another woman who was recording the events on her cell phone, then grabbing the phone and breaking it.

– One woman was arrested for interference and resisting arrest. One officer used pepper spray on the woman, police said, when she did not comply with officers’ demands. That woman “just would not leave,” when asked by officers to back away from the scuffles, said spokesman Rick Eckhard said. She also passively resisted when an officer tried to handcuff her, he said.

– One man was arrested for peace disturbance when he entered a circle of people who had gathered near the pepper-sprayed woman and refused to comply with officers’ demands to leave.

– Post-Dispatch reporter Jake Wagman also was arrested for allegedly interfering..”

No charges have been filed and all suspects have been released."

Guess which ones were union thugs and Democratic operatives.

davod said...

The picture of the young guy with his arm up cropped the sign h was carrying.

The picture showing the swastica also shows the swastica with a red line through it - no nazi tactics.

See my earlier post re nazi tactics.

Pat Patterson said...

TV is like Bill B in that they rarely link and then when they do they haven't read it so often stand naked in front of Herod. But without John the Baptist's head as a reward. That particular poll is from the Pew Research Center.

http://tinyurl.com/cnx7rt

tfhr said...

davod,

The "brown shirt" comments were issued by U.S.Congressman Brian Baird, D-Vancouver, but that only scratches the surface of the story!

The Washington State Democrat said, "What we're seeing right now is close to Brown Shirt tactics, I mean that very seriously." The following link to a Columbian.com article is the source used here for the "brown shirt" comment and even more bizarre behavior from Baird.
http://columbian.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090806/NEWS02/708069952

So that is his excuse for ducking out of town hall meetings with his constituents. BUT he plans on substituting with a "Town Hall Tele-Conference"! I'm not making that up! Then it gets even more unhinged when Columbian.com describes how it works and who will pay for it:

"His office used its Congressional allowance to buy the necessary software around the start of 2009, a spokesman said".

"Here's how it'll work: if you happen to be sitting near a publicly listed Clark County telephone line on the right day at the right time, your phone will ring".

"In order to avoid software problems, Baird's office says, the exact date and time will be kept secret from the public".

"If you answer your landline, an automated message will ask whether you have a question for your Congressman".

"Press *3, and you'll be asked your location and the subject of your question. Sitting at his own telephone at an AS-YET-UNDISCLOSED LOCATION, Baird then will choose a name based on its location and the topic".

So to recap: On a secret date, at an unknown time, the Congressman will CALL YOU from an UNDISCLOSED LOCATION, and if he likes your question, he may choose to answer it. If he likes the way it goes, then he'll post it on his website for others to hear!

His reason: "There is this national movement in blogs and on the Internet to go to town hall meetings SOLELY to attack people," Baird said. "One colleague of mine recently was hung in effigy at a town hall meeting. Others needed police escorts."

His constituents are none too happy about his avoidance tactics. Here is a comment posted on the same page as the article:

by OCCNC : 8/6/09 6:55am -
"Perhaps if Congress came a little closer to representing the will of the people they wouldn't be afraid of the people they 'represent'".

"Bizarre? No, they are circling the wagons to protect themselves from the unwashed masses".

(I like this part best)

"I'll say it again, and I'll keep saying it, throw the bums out. I will not vote for an incumbent, period. Politician should not be a career plan."

Amen. Baird has been in there for 10 years according to one of his critics. When you've been sent back that many times and you're still afraid to answer unfiltered questions about an undeniably important issue...well, it's time to find another job.

Pat Patterson said...

My congressman, Dana Rohrbacher, uses the same but he also posts notices on his web, press releases and then has the machine(?) call all of who have contacted his office. That means he also takes a lot of calls from people who would gladly run him down if they could. He does not screen the calls as Baird appears to be planning.

tfhr said...

Pat Patterson,

Seems straight up to me. It's a pity you can't trade him up to a Senate seat.

Tacitus Voltaire said...

Pat Patterson said...
TV is like Bill B in that they rarely link


that's nice, pat - why, comparing me to salome almost makes sense! better luck next time!

btw, pat - are you still too intellectually insecure to admit it when you make a mistake?

Pat Patterson said...

Are you claiming you do provide links and that you have read the ones provided? The first link that Bill mentioned, the first in months I might add, also had the author claiming that the they were outliers, not typical for the Roget's challenged. And how many e-mails did you send me before you actually checked your fabulist claim of the DMV's Berkeley office providing you with a refund check? Did you check the source of the relative education levels of Limbaugh's or just dismiss it out of hand because you were too lazy to check its source or didn't want the thread to get bogged down in mea culpas?

It's despicable when any American hurls the charge Nazi at those he doesn't like or agree with but it is reprehensible for the Left which has been making that charge against anyone it disagrees with since 1933. Well, except when the Cominterm told them the Germans were their buddies and to keep the US out of the plutocrats war.

Tacitus Voltaire said...

so i guess your answer to my question is 'no' , then, pat. too bad...

Dr Weevil said...

I hope no one minds if I repeat pertinent bits of a comment I made at Volokh.com yesterday:

If your opponents accuse you of acting like Nazis, the worst possible thing you can do is send thugs to beat them up for saying it, since that makes you look like (duh!) Nazis, thus making them look prescient rather than stupid.

Which reminds me: I once had a (university) student who told a classmate he thought she would make an excellent dominatrix. She was naturally outraged and slapped him, and he said "See what I mean!". That was of course the worst thing she could do.

It's the same here: if you don't want to be compared to Nazis, don't act like them, and don't defend those who act like them.

So much for the recycled stuff. I would just add that those who call the SEIU thugs who beat people in St. Louis "brownshirts" are demonstrably wrong: the shirts they wear are purple.

Tacitus Voltaire said...

in any case, pat, let my ready admission of error in stating exactly which government agency issued me the refund check stand as a model for you of how an intellectually secure person reacts. i have every hope that one day you too may be able to achieve this

Pat Patterson said...

Excuse me, but the "...intellectually secure," person was the one who actually checked your claims until you were forced to retract them. All you had to do was say that your experience with both the State and the City of Berkeley was satisfactory but instead your embroidered and embellished and ultimately destroyed any credibility on that particular issue because you had no respect for the facts and no interest in only relaying what actually happened.

"Ready admission of error..." seems more like a gauzy view of the nobility of TV when confronted by error rather than the grudging series of backtracks it was.

tfhr said...

Dr Weevil,

Good comment:

"If your opponents accuse you of acting like Nazis, the worst possible thing you can do is send thugs to beat them up for saying it, since that makes you look like (duh!) Nazis, thus making them look prescient rather than stupid".

Another one of your remarks reminds me of a P.J. O'Rourke quote:

"People ask me if I've ever been called a Nazi. I answer that no one has ever had dreams of being tied down and sexually ravished by someone dressed as a liberal".

Tacitus Voltaire said...

a gauzy view

if you are having trouble understanding the concept of "intellectually secure", i suggest you ask some questions or do a little searching on the web

or, you could demonstrate that you understand it by admitting it when you are caught committing one of your numerous solecisms

in any case, acting like you unclear on the concept is not a good way to start

Pat Patterson said...

The Crocs make those funny squeaks and destroy the mood?

Dr Weevil said...

Hmmm. Tacitus Voltaire accuses someone else of "numerous solecisms" while omitting the necessary punctuation after "solecism" and in the very next sentence writing "acting like you unclear on the concept". Karma, or some kind of metaliterary joke?

Tacitus Voltaire said...

as fascinated as we all surely are, pat, by your recounting, yet again, of your glorious triumph in pointing out that my traffic fine refund must have come from the city of berkeley rather than the dmv, you persist in egregiously missing the point

i showed maturity in admitting an obvious factual error, and graciousness in thanking you for pointing it out.

you can take this as a model to reform your own behavior, or continue to embarass yourself. your choice!

Tacitus Voltaire said...

as much as i admire dr weevil for his decision to do something that he loves for a living, i always end up imagining him getting run over by a truck while examining the asphalt for cracks

Dr Weevil said...

Poor Tacitus Voltaire doesn't seem to get it: I don't go looking for grammatical errors in comment sections, but when they're really blatant and occur in a comment criticizing someone else for his "numerous solecisms", who could resist mentioning it?

I wonder if he's figured out the difference between 'previous' and 'subsequent' yet.

Tacitus Voltaire said...

i wonder if dr weevil has figured out the difference between 'significant' and 'trivial' yet?

Dr Weevil said...

So the answer to my question is no. Just to recap, Bill B. made the ridiculous claim that Obama was elected in a landslide. When I called him on it, he said that it should count as a landslide because the margin was so much larger than the two previous elections. (He also included his usual contemptible violation of Betsy's rules for addressing other commenters, but that is by the way.) tfhr pointed out that you could equally well argue that Bush-Kerry was a landslide, since Bush's margin of victory in the popular vote (2.4%) was so much larger than in the previous one (-0.5%). Tacitus Voltaire has yet to show any sign of comprehending his point, despite frequent hints.

Pat Patterson said...

And exactly how many times was this "...factual error" pointed out before you admitted your mistake? Like Robert McNamara a little late in life to have a Road to Damascus moment.

tfhr said...

TV,

What landed you in trouble with the DMV? Sorry, dmv? Were you caught without an operational shift key?

PS (that has to be capped - I'm not rubbing it in) ~ Does the efficiency and general "feel good" atmosphere at the DMV make you think, "Gee, I wish these guys were running my health care too!"?

Tacitus Voltaire said...

What landed you in trouble with the DMV?

it appears that the city of berkeley farms out collection on its overdue parking tickets on a competetive basis (!!!) two different agencies collected on the same tickets, and i had to make some calls to get my money back. in the event, all the government people i talked to were considerably more helpful and efficient than one is commonly lead to believe

Tacitus Voltaire said...

dr weevil - you were correct in telling bill b that the obama margin of victory was not in the landslide category

since it seemed meaningless to me for tfhr to compare bush's margin in 2000 to his margin in 2004 when talking about landslides, i assumed that he must be comparing bush's 2004 victory to obama's 2008 victory - 'assume' being the operative word here...

tfhr said...

TV,

Regarding your DMV adventure, I had to laugh when I saw you use the word "competitive"! You'll see that I've picked up on that concept for you in another thread.

Who hired two "agencies" to collect on your ticket? Was it... Government?! (disclosure followed by menacing reveal music♪♫)

So the government paid twice what it needed to spend to collect on your ticket. Great. They should find managing health care costs to be much less complex.

Now about the response you provided to Dr. Weevil that included a reference to me:

Sarcasm is not "meaningless", especially when used to take a poke at a particularly inane Biddlism, the "Great 2008 Obamaslide", wherein a single digit margin eclipses a half dozen double digit margins, as per Dr. Weevil's correction.

Dr. Weevil explains to you quite clearly what I was saying if you had not bothered to read the earlier posts in the thread. You should read them. It's not like they're this cryptic, 1000+ page multiple volume of legalese pretending to be a health care bill. Nobody reads those things!

Tacitus Voltaire said...

a goverment employee lectures us on the innate inefficiency of government employees, and free market advocates tell us that the free market fairy will wither and die unless evil victims of malpractice... have their freedom - restricted!!!

brillliant! wonderful irony!


They should find managing health care costs to be much less complex

by this silly logic, the dmv is managing the army!

seriously, if you think that health insurance reform means that government agencies will "run healthcare", you are abysmally ill informed

tfhr said...

TV,

Explain in 1000 pages or less, just how government will not be managing more aspects of health care than it currently does now.